Have you thought about doing the final show of the series as a regular Besties episode? It would be fun to get Justin and Griffin's point of view as outside observers to this whole process.
Also some ideas for follow-up series:
- The best game for each genre. If I've never played a Metroidvania before, which one should I check out today in 2023? What about fighters, RPGs, RTS's, etc.
- The best games for each platform, especially now that retro emulation handhelds are getting so popular. I've never owned a PS1, what should I check out? Same with Dreamcast, N64…
Oh man, I was so disheartened when I just saw this because I've been really vibing with what Sea of Stars has brought to the table. Great news in this article:
I feel like you guys are selling the original Mario Kart short. I don’t think i’d go so far as to say it should definitely make the list, but the original game set the standard for racing controls that influenced everything from Crash Team Racing and Garfield Kart to Burnout and Need For Speed Underground. It had that perfect nintendo balance of approachability and complexity. If i gave a controller to my sister or my parents and told them “hold A to go,” they could figure it out and have fun. That wasn’t the case with F-Zero or other “drift to maintain speed” arcade racers at the time, IMO. The tracks were less fantastical but the controls were tight and there were lots of opportunities for shortcuts and strategy. it can feel weird returning to it now since it wasn’t meant to be controlled with an analog stick, but i found it didn’t take me more than 5 minutes to get a feel for it and start climbing the ranks in GP just like i did 30 years ago.
It's really fun watching this process take place and seeing the choices get made. Boy, is 25 games a tight requirement!
I think Myst is more important as far as an explosion of mass market attention on video games than you gave it credit for, and is also more playable. It employs environmental storytelling prior to immersive sims making it their calling card. And there are a lot of really great puzzles (as well as a few awkwardly arbitrary ones).
But, I'm sorry, I think an even bigger whiff is that you didn't even talk about Civilization. I think it's easy to take it for granted in the genre of turn-based strategy games, but there was nothing obvious about Civilization when it came out. Sid Meier even started it as a real-time game, but found it worked better turn-based. And while it's part wargame (a genre that was huge in the early days of gaming, but I'm sure will not be represented if Civ isn't included), it blends that with the more constructive pursuit of building and developing cities--which I could argue ties into a whole lot of casual games today. And it does all that at a mind-boggling scale that probably no one but Sid Meier could have navigated.
Two of my favorite games also came out in this era: Star Control 2 is (like Civ) a great example of a game with grand scope that is nonetheless quite accessible. My intuition is that 90s technology was particularly well suited to threading that needle (probably applies to Super Metroid and FF6 too). Star Control 2 is also one of the greatest and best-told stories in video games. It used to rank on a lot of all-time lists, but it's more and more forgotten today.
My other personal favorite is almost totally forgotten: Ultima: Worlds of Adventure 2: Martian Dreams. It's a total dead-end of a game, influence-wise--a spin-off of Ultima that hybridizes RPGs and adventure games. But its setting (historical Victorian luminaries on Mars!) and its open-world adventuring across a whole planet are remarkable and unlike anything else. It's secretly Warren Spector's masterpiece.
Both Ultima and Civ are killer recs. The challenge of games is there are always gaps in experience. Strategy and early RPG are prob our two biggies. Maybe we can go back and play some of these classics eventually!
I really wish The Three Body Problem trilogy was better. I have never failed to finish a series 70% of the way through the last book. I hope Chris enjoys it more than I did.
I also thought it was too long-winded and overall not an enjoyable read. Always surprised when I see people recommend it (although it does touch on very interesting topics).
Aug 25, 2023·edited Aug 25, 2023Liked by The Besties
Finally got to this week's Resties, and as a noted Myst stan... dear lord... "playing an Encarta CD"? I know the game is obtuse but eughh... that one hurt.
Resisting the desire to become *that* commentor and go on and on about a done deal, yeah, I do pretty much agree with Chris on this, that the story surrounding Myst and what it has led to or has inspired since it's release is it's real lasting legacy but still...
Can we say the final criteria for this list is “incredibly influential games that are still fun to play in their own right, even for people who have not played many video games”?
I’ve loved this series so far, and it’s a treat to watch Russ and Chris figure out what this list really IS. Can’t wait for the final episode.
P.S. It would be fun to get Justin and Griffin’s opinions on the final list, maybe as a B-segment to a regular Besties episode.
Man, the 90-94 era were some formative years for my very young self, but I can’t say many of those games feel like they would fit this list (Comix Zone? Jurassic Park? Toejam and Earl? Etc.). But I’m surprised Starfox didn’t get a shoutout. It’s certainly doesn’t have the star power of other titles, but it did kick off a different kind of console game. I can’t think of a similar style game on console that achieves the quasi-flight simulator effect of Starfox. But of course, there’s only so much room on the list.
Totally random aside: what about a follow-up list of the absolute worst games ever created? Some ET-tier stuff that killed franchises, consoles, and developers’ dreams.
I feel like Link to the Past is a much better representation of 2D Zelda than the original Legend of Zelda. Same with SMB3 or Mario World vs. SMB1. You got Super Metroid right, but missed on those two.
I completely agree about Link to the Past. It’s the definitive game of a genre and wouldn’t be out of place at #1 in a list of best games of all time. The first Zelda is a marvel and a fun time capsule but i would never tell anyone they have to go back and play it today. Link to the Past i would recommend to anyone who’s ever played a video game.
Have you thought about doing the final show of the series as a regular Besties episode? It would be fun to get Justin and Griffin's point of view as outside observers to this whole process.
Also some ideas for follow-up series:
- The best game for each genre. If I've never played a Metroidvania before, which one should I check out today in 2023? What about fighters, RPGs, RTS's, etc.
- The best games for each platform, especially now that retro emulation handhelds are getting so popular. I've never owned a PS1, what should I check out? Same with Dreamcast, N64…
We'll likely keep the finale within The Resties, mostly because we're in the busy game season. But these follow-uo series ideas are a lot of fun!
I think it would be great to have a revisiting of this list but replace each game with the most fun version of that game.
Love the idea of Sea of Stars. Hate the specter of Jordan Peterson hovering over it.
oh no…i’m afraid to even look up what this means lol
Oh man, I was so disheartened when I just saw this because I've been really vibing with what Sea of Stars has brought to the table. Great news in this article:
https://astrolabe.aidanmoher.com/p/sea-of-stars-jordan-peterson
Long story short, no more concerns over JP.
I think THE archetypical classical JRPG is Dragon Quest III. That was the gold bar that all future classic-style JRPGs had to cross
Red Beard whips ass. Great movie.
I feel like you guys are selling the original Mario Kart short. I don’t think i’d go so far as to say it should definitely make the list, but the original game set the standard for racing controls that influenced everything from Crash Team Racing and Garfield Kart to Burnout and Need For Speed Underground. It had that perfect nintendo balance of approachability and complexity. If i gave a controller to my sister or my parents and told them “hold A to go,” they could figure it out and have fun. That wasn’t the case with F-Zero or other “drift to maintain speed” arcade racers at the time, IMO. The tracks were less fantastical but the controls were tight and there were lots of opportunities for shortcuts and strategy. it can feel weird returning to it now since it wasn’t meant to be controlled with an analog stick, but i found it didn’t take me more than 5 minutes to get a feel for it and start climbing the ranks in GP just like i did 30 years ago.
It's really fun watching this process take place and seeing the choices get made. Boy, is 25 games a tight requirement!
I think Myst is more important as far as an explosion of mass market attention on video games than you gave it credit for, and is also more playable. It employs environmental storytelling prior to immersive sims making it their calling card. And there are a lot of really great puzzles (as well as a few awkwardly arbitrary ones).
But, I'm sorry, I think an even bigger whiff is that you didn't even talk about Civilization. I think it's easy to take it for granted in the genre of turn-based strategy games, but there was nothing obvious about Civilization when it came out. Sid Meier even started it as a real-time game, but found it worked better turn-based. And while it's part wargame (a genre that was huge in the early days of gaming, but I'm sure will not be represented if Civ isn't included), it blends that with the more constructive pursuit of building and developing cities--which I could argue ties into a whole lot of casual games today. And it does all that at a mind-boggling scale that probably no one but Sid Meier could have navigated.
Two of my favorite games also came out in this era: Star Control 2 is (like Civ) a great example of a game with grand scope that is nonetheless quite accessible. My intuition is that 90s technology was particularly well suited to threading that needle (probably applies to Super Metroid and FF6 too). Star Control 2 is also one of the greatest and best-told stories in video games. It used to rank on a lot of all-time lists, but it's more and more forgotten today.
My other personal favorite is almost totally forgotten: Ultima: Worlds of Adventure 2: Martian Dreams. It's a total dead-end of a game, influence-wise--a spin-off of Ultima that hybridizes RPGs and adventure games. But its setting (historical Victorian luminaries on Mars!) and its open-world adventuring across a whole planet are remarkable and unlike anything else. It's secretly Warren Spector's masterpiece.
Looking forward to hearing the 80s picks!
Both Ultima and Civ are killer recs. The challenge of games is there are always gaps in experience. Strategy and early RPG are prob our two biggies. Maybe we can go back and play some of these classics eventually!
I really wish The Three Body Problem trilogy was better. I have never failed to finish a series 70% of the way through the last book. I hope Chris enjoys it more than I did.
I also thought it was too long-winded and overall not an enjoyable read. Always surprised when I see people recommend it (although it does touch on very interesting topics).
Finally got to this week's Resties, and as a noted Myst stan... dear lord... "playing an Encarta CD"? I know the game is obtuse but eughh... that one hurt.
Resisting the desire to become *that* commentor and go on and on about a done deal, yeah, I do pretty much agree with Chris on this, that the story surrounding Myst and what it has led to or has inspired since it's release is it's real lasting legacy but still...
Thoroughly enjoyed the episode. I remember playing all of these games growing up. It’s a nice jaunt down memory lane.
Hearing Toahiro Mifune’s name at the top of the show was not what I expected, but made me love this even more. He’s the GOAT!!
I should have kept listening because the fact that it was Red Beard?!?! One of the best Kurosawa movies?!?! Plant, I’m glad you seemed to enjoy it.
The Three Body Problem was excellent. I slammed it in under 8 hours. Haven't read the others.
Can we say the final criteria for this list is “incredibly influential games that are still fun to play in their own right, even for people who have not played many video games”?
I’ve loved this series so far, and it’s a treat to watch Russ and Chris figure out what this list really IS. Can’t wait for the final episode.
P.S. It would be fun to get Justin and Griffin’s opinions on the final list, maybe as a B-segment to a regular Besties episode.
This is great!
“incredibly influential games that are still fun to play in their own right, even for people who have not played many video games”
Man, the 90-94 era were some formative years for my very young self, but I can’t say many of those games feel like they would fit this list (Comix Zone? Jurassic Park? Toejam and Earl? Etc.). But I’m surprised Starfox didn’t get a shoutout. It’s certainly doesn’t have the star power of other titles, but it did kick off a different kind of console game. I can’t think of a similar style game on console that achieves the quasi-flight simulator effect of Starfox. But of course, there’s only so much room on the list.
Totally random aside: what about a follow-up list of the absolute worst games ever created? Some ET-tier stuff that killed franchises, consoles, and developers’ dreams.
I feel like Link to the Past is a much better representation of 2D Zelda than the original Legend of Zelda. Same with SMB3 or Mario World vs. SMB1. You got Super Metroid right, but missed on those two.
I completely agree about Link to the Past. It’s the definitive game of a genre and wouldn’t be out of place at #1 in a list of best games of all time. The first Zelda is a marvel and a fun time capsule but i would never tell anyone they have to go back and play it today. Link to the Past i would recommend to anyone who’s ever played a video game.
This little boy (who is fourteen) did not know what penultimate means. So thank you.